Todd Merrill:

Hi, welcome to Tales from the SkyLounge. It’s a podcast about business, consulting, and venture investing. We get out there in the world and we talk to people who are making it happen, and we get their stories. If you can like and subscribe, it makes our producer, James, very happy. And we’d like to point out, go check out our sister playlist, SpeedRun, where we talk about solutions for practical AI that can really impact your business in a meaningful way in a very low effort manner.

So, today’s guest in the SkyLounge is Virginie Glaenzer. Hey, Virginie. Welcome to SkyLounge.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Hi, Todd. Great to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah. So, Virginie, who are you and what are you working on?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Well, my name is Virginie Glaenzer. I’m originally from France, born and raised in Paris. And in 1998, I decided to change matrix. I actually moved to the San Francisco Bay Area with four suitcases. My husband did not speak a word of English.

Todd Merrill:

Wow!

Virginie Glaenzer:

And it was the beginning of a new chapter in my life without really knowing it. We ended up in a Motel 6 for a few months, drinking the hotel coffee and eating a 99-cent cheeseburger from Wendy’s. It almost seems that we didn’t choose the right or the easiest path, but it was quite an adventure. We got funded, and the rest is history. We stayed in the US for the last 25 years, spent 17 years in Northern California, and then 12 years in New York City. And I’ve done a lot of work in the tech space as a CMO, and I’ve been for the last six months. Actually, for the last six years, I’ve been a fractional CMO, but I joined TechCXO about six months ago to join a group of amazing fractional executives.

Todd Merrill:

Wow!

Virginie Glaenzer:

And that’s what I do today.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah, there’s a lot there. All right. So, you’re sitting around in Paris and you graduated with a degree. And then you’re talking to your husband, and you go, “Let’s go to Silicon Valley.” Okay. Walk us through that moment. That’s got to be an incredible moment. How did you decide that that was what you wanted to do? And then what’s that discussion like with your significant other?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah. Well, at the time, we didn’t really have a lot of options. We had a French company and we were trying to raise funds. We had built a software that would be installed on computers to help users become more friendly with the user interface. And after talking to banks and investment banker, which is everybody at the time was telling us, you know, come back when you’re successful, when you made it. And we saw a documentary back in 1998 about Silicon Valley. And there were a number of French entrepreneurs and other people talking about Silicon Valley as the place to be. And we decided, well, this is what we have to do. So, we did an initial trip in June. We went to New York, had a bunch of meetings with IBM and other potential partners or customers. And then we went one time to Silicon Valley. We met with a number of French successful entrepreneurs, and they told us, “Hey, if you moved, we’ll fund you, we’ll literally fund you.”

Todd Merrill:

Okay

Virginie Glaenzer:

And so we went back, packed our bags, everything was in my parents’ garage, sold the car, one of the rare possessions that we had at the time. And that was it, four suitcases. It was a unique moment back in ‘99.

Todd Merrill:

Wow! So, it sounds like the economics just kind of guided you to where you needed to be. I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs here in Atlanta, the same kind of problem, maybe not as bad as back then, but you have to have some success before you get serious investors that will back you. And I don’t know what’s in the water in Silicon Valley, but particularly that era, you could definitely go fast, and attract capital and then get going. So, you moved to San Francisco or the Bay Area, and then you said you had a couple of French connections, and they said they would bankroll you to get going. So, did you have a garage in Silicon Valley? You didn’t have a car.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Actually, we ended up in Sunnyvale for a few months to rent an apartment. And then once we signed up with investors, we moved to Redwood City, and we had the garage with a separate garage in the backyard. And that’s where we put all the engineers. I have pictures.

Todd Merrill:

That’s awesome.

Virginie Glaenzer:

At the time, there was a TV crew that came, and it was a documentary and we were on some news about this French couple coming and getting funded. And we thought we were the next HP, starting with a garage.

Todd Merrill:

Sure, yeah.

Virginie Glaenzer:

But the whole 1999 in the San Francisco Bay Area was just electric.

Todd Merrill:

Oh, yeah.

Virginie Glaenzer:

It was crazy. There were millions of dollars signed on a check in a hotel or a restaurant on a piece of paper. And a lot of businesses at the time had no business model. It was also unsustainable, but it was a great time to be alive.

Todd Merrill:

So, what was the name? Did you have a .com in your name? Was that attributable to some of your success in fundraising?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Was it a .com? Well, it was not a .com per se, but it was definitely a mobile app that allowed people to communicate. So, we had a first business which we pivoted because the first one did not succeed, and we still had investors. So, we rebranded and took some of the technology, and then that was a little bit more successful. I was able to buy myself a nice house, basically.

Todd Merrill:

Okay

Virginie Glaenzer:

And then we shut it down because that was the end of the adventure. But we stayed, and I worked for a lot of tech startups, B2B, brilliant engineers launching their own product on the market. This journey really taught me how to lead through change because I’ve lived it firsthand. But as an outsider, it was really interesting to see things that others were not able to see. I think the outsider edge helped me to spot untapped opportunities and actually, in my job today as a fractional CMO, it really serves me well to challenge some of the assumptions that other people can’t see.

Todd Merrill:

The Bay Area is so interesting in that way. Everybody’s from somewhere else. There are very few people who remember the fruit trees that used to be there. But yet it’s such an insular, unique culture once you get there. It’s like your Bay Area or you’re not is kind of a thing, right? It’s such a dichotomy as everybody’s an outsider, but we’re all here together doing our thing. It’s just really neat.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah. And what was interesting in Silicon Valley is that speed was really over-perfection. That was the norm. It was all about shipping fast, failing forward, scaling big. That era taught me how to prototype an idea, not just to plan them. But of course, even though the energy was contagious, it was just unsustainable.

Todd Merrill:

Fail forward, fail fast, break things, move fast, break things. These are all kinds of things that people in the software industry have said for a while. But you think we’re still there? You think the industry has changed? Over the last five years, a lot of people have left the Valley and moved to other places. New York has seen a resurgence, Boston and Austin. A lot of DNA has spread to other places. We stopped shooting for the moon with crazy ideas, and then we started doing yet another social media thing or yet another app. Does it feel like we’re restarting all that again? Does it feel like the go-go days are starting to come back? Particularly with AI. Now we’re talking about you have to go fast or else.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly

Todd Merrill:

Do you feel like that’s a thing now or how do you think about that?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Absolutely. I think after doing 25 years in digital versus the AI revolution, this is bigger than the internet boom. If I were in France right now and moved to the US, I would definitely come for the AI. But what’s interesting is that AI is not just a tool. It’s a force that rewrites how we think, how we work, how we create. The scale of transformation is not only faster, but more intimate than any past wave. I was thinking about the difference between the digital revolution and the AI transformation. Digital was about connection, but AI is about cognition. The digital era brought us closer to each other with social media and networks. But the AI era brings us closer to ourselves, our thinking, our biases, our creativity. That’s, I think, a lot more profound. [00:10:28]

Todd Merrill:

I think about that. It’s a way to go personally faster so that you can bring your expertise to bear in a more efficient manner. Is that how we think about it?

Virginie Glaenzer:

I think so, for those at least who are willing to do the work, because it is exhausting to train yourself on AI. You always feel that you’re left behind, that others are going way faster. There are a few myths that we have to debunk about AI. But eventually, it’s really challenging the way you work. And I’ve always loved to challenge the way. Actually, the society as it was before AI, I never felt that I truly fitted in that society. Nowadays, the sky is the limit. And I think AI is really a personal empowerment.

Todd Merrill:

So, you said you didn’t feel like you fit in the society?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Being in the tech space for the last 30 years, it was very male-oriented, male-dominated.

Todd Merrill:

That’s true.

Virginie Glaenzer:

And as a woman, I had a seat at the table. I was VP of marketing, and I was able to have the budget and the team, but when it came to really making profound changes in an organization, as someone who was hired to make a digital transformation, people expected me to make them feel comfortable. And change is not comfortable.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah

Virginie Glaenzer:

And that’s why, as a fractional CMO, I so much enjoy the work because I’m not there to make people feel comfortable. I’m actually doing the opposite. I’m taking their anxiety out of the organization. But they expect me to make them feel uncomfortable. So, yeah. 

Todd Merrill:

I know you write a lot about masculine, feminine energy needed to balance. So, the go-fast-break stuff is definitely a male impulse. You talk to people about practical AI. Everybody acknowledges, yes, this is a force that we all have to come to grips with. I see a lot of fear, like a lot of, “That’s stupid, I’ll never go.” Or, “Oh crap, I’m not gonna have a job.” You hear that line. But then you hear, I personally know, like, lawyers is a good example, their whole business model has changed. You can’t bill hourly to review a contract anymore when everybody knows you have AI. And it’s going to take you about 45 seconds to type a prompt and then make the change from something that already exists. That whole business model has changed. So, people in other industries, like in sales or consulting, they know they’ve got to pick that up or it’s coming, but they don’t know how to do that. And they’re kind of looking at it going, okay, who do I hire? I can’t hire young, fresh out of MBAs anymore to do some of this work, because that doesn’t make sense. But I’ve got to keep my business going. There’s a lot of interesting kinds of emotions. Everybody’s very uncomfortable right now to kind of bring it back.

Virginie Glaenzer:

I think what’s going to happen is that there’s going to be a first wave where people realize, “Oh, I don’t need people because I have AI tools and agents and all those promises of using technology to serve the various roles.” And then we’re going to have to bring those people back, because even if AI can write codes, you still need to know what kind of code you want to write. And it’s never 100% perfect. So, we’re going to see back and forth, organizations getting rid of people and then having them come back. And I think it’s a big mistake to not hire young individuals because they’re so creative.

Todd Merrill:

Oh, yeah.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Their brain have been molded such in a different way, and they’re challenging the status quo. What I find the most interesting about AI is that it requires us to ask questions. But if you look at how we’ve been raised and the way the education is being given, we’re not being taught to ask questions because asking questions challenges the status quo. So, really using and mastering AI internally in a company or just on an individual basis starts with what questions can you ask? Yeah.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah, I think we used to train workers for, hey, I’m going to tell you to do something, go do it. Or I’m going to ask you a question, you repeat it back, the answer, those skills are almost… don’t make sense anymore, right? We have automation and AI to take care of some of this grunt work that the young first, second year, the new juniors of the partnership have had to take on. I think it’s a very interesting time. Now we all get kind of freed up to think, and the critical thinking skills of why are we doing this?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Right

Todd Merrill:

And then what’s the best way for us to approach this problem? Those skills are in demand.

Virginie Glaenzer:

And really, what it comes down to is we’re building brands, right? Which are experiences. Being in technology and in Silicon Valley, you start to get caught up in the technology for the sake of technology. But really, let’s just go back down to basis. A business thrives because it fixes a problem. It solves a pain, right? So, as a marketer, I’m very focused on the brands of the future. And I still believe to this day that the brands of the future will have a community built into their DNA of the organization.

Todd Merrill:

Okay

Virginie Glaenzer:

And you don’t add a community, you build a community. I think the future-proof brands will start with a community at the core operating principle, not a marketing tactic. And it’s because when people feel seen and heard, they become advocates, not just buyers. To me, that’s the flywheel of modern brand growth.

Todd Merrill:

So, let’s kind of walk through that. So, you’re a new company and you’re getting some traction in the world. Hopefully, you’ve made some early customers wildly enthusiastic about your product. Ideally, what happens at that point?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah

Todd Merrill:

How do you grow from there?

Virginie Glaenzer:

So, communities or kind of the new loyalty programs.

Todd Merrill:

And is that like Reddit? Like, how do we?

Virginie Glaenzer:

It could be various communities. You could have a community website that you’ve built and there’s plenty of community platforms. You can use other communities. If you’re a writer and you’re using Hubstack. Is it Hubstack?

Todd Merrill:

Substack

Virginie Glaenzer:

HubSpot

Todd Merrill:

HubSpot, Substack.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Substack. You’re building a community through that platform.

Todd Merrill:

Okay

Virginie Glaenzer:

But I think it’s more of a mindset because to me, belonging beats branding. So, the strongest brands will be those that make people feel like they’re part of something bigger than a transaction. It’s really when you think of your business. 

Todd Merrill:

Yeah. I’ve seen people talk about Gen Z being different. And then they hired a Gen Z on Alart to do digital whatever. And then the way they think is definitely different. It kind of dovetails with what you just said. But it’s, I think, how do they say it? It was, Gen Z wants nothing to do with the brand. Just because you’re Coca-Cola, I don’t care. Right?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Mm-hmm

Todd Merrill:

But they want to belong or they want to feel like you understand me.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly. Yeah, that they matter. They don’t buy the society that Baby Boomers and Gen X have built. This idea, you know, from the working, the lifestyle of the business world, where the corner office, the title, the money, they don’t buy into this type of social clue. They’re a lot more in finding their own individuality, focusing on their well-being, on their emotional well-being. And I think that’s why we see that generation not buying houses. Some people say they cannot afford it. But I think they don’t want to be tied in. Same thing with the cars. They’re very much into the sharing economy. And they’re right. I think it really comes down to the way they see the world. They’ve been exposed to a world that was extremely diverse because of social media. It was a window opened on the world. It was not, you know, black and white. It was not too, even from a gender standpoint, we’ve been raised with either you’re a man or a woman, two boxes. But guess what? Human beings are as diverse as nature is. I have three daughters, 26, 25, and 19, and when I ask them and try to understand the way they look at the world, it’s so much more peaceful and colorful, despite what’s being thrown at them, you know, with climate change, with the wars, with some of the absurdity of the inequality. And despite that, I think they’re pretty funny.

Todd Merrill:

So, one of the early concerns that we had with that generation was that they’re so hyper-connected horizontally, but nothing is deep at all. Do you think we’re seeing that generation now mature and set the phones down and then go out and have deep, meaningful experiences finally?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Oh, I think so.

Todd Merrill:

And that’s how they get there?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah, I think they’re challenging the way we see relationships. And I think they’re very honest in what are those type of relationships. Are those relationship networking relationships where you know someone, but it’s an acquaintance, or is it really someone who accepts who you are and you don’t have to play a character. I’ve seen also, you know, there’s a big trend today with flip phones being bought by that generation because they don’t want to be hooked to social media. On my app, on my phone, I have an app that allows me to see, and the only social media scrolling experience that I’m allowing myself is on Instagram. And I have an app that controls the time I can spend. It’s 10-minute maximum, and then I have to wait seven seconds. And there’s a question, you know, why are you checking Instagram? And I can choose…

Todd Merrill:

…because you have something better to do.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly

Todd Merrill:

Yeah

Virginie Glaenzer:

But that shows how dependent and, you know, weak we are. So, I think they’re very well aware of that. Yeah.

Todd Merrill:

So, for a minute, you know, when you went into business in your digital marketing, there was a bazillion, jillion social media platforms. And the strategy was you got to have a presence in all of these places. Now it’s like Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, you know, on and on and on and on. How do we think about that? It seems like we’re finally exhausted. And everybody kind of wants to focus a little bit. Are we going to see a big shakeout in some of these things, you know, where one or two of them are going to be the thing, and then that’s it? Or how do you think all this is going to shake out?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Well, there’s always going to be trends, you know, hot things, exclusive types of networks. But I think with AI, there’s definitely a leveling, the game is being leveled. And so things that were reserved to big brands with maximum, you know, top-dollar budget are now being accessible to much smaller organizations. There’s unfortunately not one recipe that works for every organization. What’s common, the common thread amongst all the industry today is that, one, people are overwhelmed with choices, no matter what category of product you are in. Two, they have a very low attention span. We’re talking six seconds to capture someone’s interest. And third, there’s a really big trust issue. So, no matter what you’re selling, we really have to focus on the trust. How do you create trust? What are the signals that can tell someone that this is reliable? We’ve all made purchases at some point on any of the social media channels that revealed to be either a scam or really a bad product. And so I think, we’ll see. I’m hoping that we’ll always see new social media networks. Things change, but with SEO, Search Engine Optimization, where you would create content to optimize for search engines to pick up those information, we’re now going to GEO, Generative Engine Optimization, and it’s a whole different thing.

Todd Merrill:

A little scary for a lot of people.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah

Todd Merrill:

Here we are again. It’s like this is not a comfortable year for a lot of reasons, right?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly

Todd Merrill:

So, trust is a big deal, and reputation is a big deal, but you have six seconds to get that across. Oh, man. How do you do that?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Which is why if you have a community, your clients become your advocates.

Todd Merrill:

You can’t be in the room all the time. Right?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly. You just let the customers tell the story.

Todd Merrill:

So, you think… I can’t remember. I think it’s Palantir. One of these big companies was talking about forward-deployed engineers now, where you take one of your people, put them on site, and then live for a few weeks in your organization. Is that how we think about communities? Do we have to hire a forward-deployed community advocate? It’s not a manager, right, because you can’t manage a herd of cats.

Virginie Glaenzer:

A community manager would be someone who really is hosting the space.

Todd Merrill:

Okay

Virginie Glaenzer:

But when you host the space, you can’t tell people what to think, what to say, how to act. You have to create a little bit of boundaries through the values, bring in the right people, but there is a moment where you have to step out, where you have to recognize that your ego wants to control the room, but you can’t. If you’re a good community manager, you’re just listening, letting others create the content and the experience.

Todd Merrill:

So, I had a moment with a couple startups where I thought we all had it covered. We had the messaging out there in the world, and then I found Telegram. All these groups form ad hoc, and then everybody’s talking. Or WhatsApp, you could form a group. Or Discord servers.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah, Sure.

Todd Merrill:

When you discover there’s a Discord server talking about your thing, and you’re not in there, that’s a moment when you realize, oh, okay. There are all kinds of ad hoc communities that form and disband and keep going. You can’t control it all, right? So how do you?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Well, humans are social creatures. Right?

Todd Merrill:

Mm-hmm

Virginie Glaenzer:

So, we are meant to connect. That’s also why I’m pretty optimistic about how the world is evolving, is at the end of the day, we are social creatures. So, we’ll find or find back the communities that allow us to thrive. But yes, there’s definitely a lack of control. And to me, the future belongs to co-creators. Leadership isn’t about control. It’s about stewardship.

Todd Merrill:

So, we’re here every day creating the thing for you as a partner, Mr. Customer or Ms. Customer, that you want and you desire. We’re in it together. A lot of the voices of customers have to be apparent that we’re listening and hear you. That’s a lot of work, right?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Oh-huh

Todd Merrill:

I think smart people have always done that, right? Voice of customer. Like Walmart. You look at the history of Walmart. They’re bringing the stuff that they know you need, and at a good price. Everybody wants to save money. There have been companies that have done it well and scaled spectacularly.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Absolutely. There are tons of brands that are really doing an excellent job in terms of creating community and creating a space for the customers to have an amazing experience and build relationships. Yeah.

Todd Merrill:

Let me bounce something off of you. Andreessen Horowitz, legendary Sand Hill Road VC, recently put a bet on Turpentine Media. That was this thing that formed where a couple of folks that were in one of their portcos, a couple of their portcos, did a really good job at this, what we’re talking about, outreach to the community. Building a personal brand, a creative personal brand, but it’s kind of like the brand of the company, but it’s a person. I don’t know how to describe that. But you know, they’ve identified that this is a thing and that you want to relate and understand the thinking all day, every day of the people who are kind of running stuff or have an opinion or are in the room. Turpentine was this series of podcasts that they kind of glommed together. And then it’s a podcast network, I guess, is a good way to say it. But it’s not just about the podcast network. It’s about an enabling technology or an enabling function where they can, you know, that’s part of the playbook moving forward, of distribution is important. It’s a competitive moat, I think. And then also being authentic and being a part of the community is a very important way that new customers are going to want to interact with your company. It’s just going to be a thing now. I don’t know what we call that or where that is on the org chart. It’s not really marketing. It’s almost like a founder function. But who’s the founder of Coca-Cola now or UPS or American Airlines? But I think some of these … like Elon Musk is CEO of ginormous companies, and everybody knows what he thinks about a lot of things. So, he does a great job of that. If you ask me who the CEO of Delta is, I’m not really sure.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Right

Todd Merrill:

But people talk about him when bad things happen to Delta, that stupid CEO.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah. Well, it’s definitely a risk in marketing to make your brand being represented by one individual because that individual will appeal to certain people and not everyone.

Todd Merrill:

You don’t want to polarize.

Virginie Glaenzer:

So that’s the challenge.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah

Virginie Glaenzer:

But I can see how it benefits particular type of organization that have a personal brand.

Todd Merrill:

Do you think we’re all going to need somebody like that in an organization or do we encourage as many people as possible to get out there and talk about our effort, our gang?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah. I think in a larger organization, the employees become the advocate, and that’s a huge opportunity when you’re able to make the employees share the word, like social media, and really embrace the culture. But that means that they really care about. So, it’s an exercise in itself. For very small business owners and small businesses, I think having the founders representing the brand is also very powerful. It makes it more personal. It makes it more intimate. But not everyone is good at sharing, talking, and are likable. Again, there’s no recipe. And there’s the magic of sometimes a success – a business becomes a success and then fades away. As humans, we are always looking for the next shining toy. We get bored very easily. And that can be quite a challenge for building an organization where you always have to bring something new.

Todd Merrill:

So, you got me thinking. Sorry.

Virginie Glaenzer:

No, no.

Todd Merrill:

So, I’ve been a part of old-school companies that have very precious brands, like Chick-fil-A is very, very precise about how you can talk about stuff. There are specific colors. There’s specific everything. But yet you want people to … if you go on the internet, there’s a lot of really enthusiastic people that want to interact and say, oh, my God, that watermelon milkshake this summer is really, really good. Or whatever. Or that whatever weird salad y’all just introduced is not going to cut it. Go back to the other thing. But people talk. You want to tightly control your image and brand in that way, but you want to have a lot of free-flowing, natural, organic discussion in and outside the company. Like, what’s … how do you do that?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah. User-generated content is very hard to control. It really takes a large marketing team and working with various marketing agencies to provide the context, make it easy for people to create within the boundaries of your brand. And if that’s how the brand thrives, then there’s a whole ecosystem of people doing it really well. But it is quite complex, and it’s an art. And I’m sure there are plenty of examples where people are using the brand’s logo and design in completely different ways, in the wrong way, but then it becomes like a trend or a meme. So, you never know, you know. The bad press is also good press.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah. There’s no such thing as bad press, right?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly. That’s what I was looking for. So, the same thing for a brand image.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah. Brave new world. Yes. We’re all going to have to figure it all out.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly

Todd Merrill:

Let’s talk about your book. You are what I would consider a prolific author with three books. At least three that I know of.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yes. I had my time of writing.

Todd Merrill:

So, what got you going on writing? Did you just kind of say, I have a song in my heart I got to get down on paper? Or was it more intentional than that or?

Virginie Glaenzer:

So, I actually wrote four books. One is when I had a life, what do you call the angst? A crisis angst? No, it’s a life.

Todd Merrill:

Like a crisis?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yes, almost like a midlife crisis. So, I wrote a number of books with poetry.

Todd Merrill:

Okay

Virginie Glaenzer:

I use poetry to kind of find my way into making sense of the world. That’s also on Amazon. I wrote a book during COVID with three other co-authors, and we gathered because we were just having a Zoom conversation and we were debating on what is the future of marketing from different angles, different perspectives. And we ended up writing and putting that on, and it’s called The Leadership Singularity. That was a fantastic experience to trying to find a new meaning to marketing. If marketing is no longer the engine of growth, what’s the purpose of marketing?

Todd Merrill:

So, what’s the answer to that?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Well, you have to read the book. It’s called The Leadership Singularity.

Todd Merrill:

Okay

Virginie Glaenzer:

And that’s where basically we say that marketing shouldn’t be a function. It should be some sort of quality embedded in all the leaders within the organization.

Todd Merrill:

Okay. Neat.

Virginie Glaenzer:

And then, as someone who challenges the status quo, and I’m always looking for new business models. Recently, I wrote a book, an article about how the subscription, there’s a subscription fatigue happening since the last few, 10 years. We started to see SaaS when you pay for your cable and your TV. Everything is membership. Even today, you can buy paper towels on Amazon on a membership level model. And so  I wrote a book called The Economy of Abundance. And what I’m seeing is that we have built an entire society built on the idea of scarcity, but it is false. We are moving from scarcity-based thinking into a trust-based system. And so, in the book, I invite people to ask themselves questions about what abundance is. What does that mean? What is enough? How much money do I need in my bank account to feel that I have enough? I can sleep well at night. How many pairs of shoes or pieces of clothing do I need in my closet to feel that I can express my own identity? And so, I think if you look at the world through the lens of abundance, it’s a whole different world that you’re seeing. There’s enough for everyone to thrive. There’s enough for every company to successfully attract customers. And so, to me, the future belongs to co-creators because in the abundance economy, leadership isn’t about control. It’s about how we build businesses, communities, and relationship.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah, I’ve been thinking about that a lot. I’m sick of saying the words AI. There are a lot of very new tools that are accelerating the creation process, and we’re experiencing an enormous creative wave that’s just washing through society. The people who want to create, it’s no longer a technical hurdle to create. It’s just how many things do you want to create today? And just go for it. It’s good and bad. It’s amazing in that all these marginal ideas that may not have gotten acted on are now brought into the realm of why wouldn’t you do that? And it’s just fun. Right? So, we’re going to see a bazillion, million things sprout, and then that’s awesome. But if you’re a marketer and you’re in a business operations mode, man, it’s so much harder to break through the noise. It’s not going to be a forcing function anymore. We can’t brute force our way by showing yet another ad during the Super Bowl. We have to figure out a different way where the best ideas flourish and get discovered somehow. I don’t know what the answer to that is, but I think you talk a lot about community. Is that what we’re talking about? Or what does the abundance theory tell us about how business is going to happen?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah. The abundance theory is that there’s enough for everyone to thrive. And so when you start with that and you start to build a business, you ask yourself how much is enough. And I think we’ve never been taught to look at a finite goal. In the economy today, it’s never enough. Companies should do every – we’re talking – we start at $300,000 of revenue, go to $10 million, and then it’s $50 million, $100 million. It’s never enough. And that, I think, is messing up with our own creativity because then we become focused on the revenue instead of being focused on the pain that we solve.

Todd Merrill:

Mmm

Virginie Glaenzer:

And there are businesses that will scale because the pain is very big, and some other businesses that are very local. Why isn’t it okay to have a business that is sustainable, that allows a few, maybe 10 employees, to make a great living? Why do we always have to build businesses that are infinite?

Todd Merrill:

Yeah. Well, I think venture is broken, right? And then venture capital, the go, go, go, go, go. I got to have one corn out of 20, and the rest of y’all don’t care. This is the antidote to that, right? If you can start on a shoestring budget and get out there in the market and then serve a niche for $5,000 a month forever, and you enjoy it, and your customers are wildly happy that you’re in business, that’s not anywhere near a venture model, but that’s a definition of happiness and success, right? So, why can’t we have a couple of businesses like that if that’s what you want to do …

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly

Todd Merrill:

And always be creating something cool?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah. When you remember that we’re all going to die and you literally are able to face the idea that you’re going to die, then you’re no longer afraid of living. I think we’re all kind of afraid of living because we haven’t reconciled the idea of death. But once you’re okay with dying, then you can really start living and take risks and just enjoy what you’re doing every single day. And for some people, it will be just building relationships and raising a family. Others, it will be building a company. So, I think when we’re able to connect with our deepest desire, we become a lot more successful.

Todd Merrill:

You think this dovetails into the gig economy or the rise in the executive ranks of fractional executive leadership where people just kind of help a couple different efforts?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Absolutely. I think fractional work has become a lifestyle. I was sharing earlier that being a fractional CMO allows me not to engage in politics. So, I’m removing so many hurdles and sleepless nights and just challenges. My ego is no longer involved. It’s no longer about me. It’s about how can I help this client with this vision reach the phase where they want to deliver. But it’s also a lifestyle because I can choose my client. I work the number of hours that I want to. It’s been very satisfying.

Todd Merrill:

It’s a lot better when you don’t have to force something to maintain your one job that you’ve had for 20 years.

Virginie Glaenzer:

A lot more sustainable, absolutely. But the challenge is that doing it alone, that’s very challenging. And I think that’s why when you’re a fractional executive or a consultant, being part of a network is so important.

Todd Merrill:

Having a community of your own.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly

Todd Merrill:

Yeah. Something kind of cool happened the other day, I want to ask you about. We had that live event, and thank you for hosting that. That was really cool talking to lots of people about the practical aspects of AI. But somebody chimed in from your Acorn Oak group, and then I want to ask you about that. What is that? And it sounds like a really interesting thing.

Virginie Glaenzer:

I started Acorn Oak a few years ago with the desire to help other women rise to the top. I think if we had an economy where there were as many women as men in the executive seats, we would not have the same type of society. I was actually a fractional CMO at the time already, and I really felt lonely. So, I thought building a community of other fractional executives to network, to share best practices, share framework would really be important. And it did a good job at providing more meaning, feeling that I could support other women in their own personal or professional adventure has been extremely rewarding. It did not, however, provide the context to really thrive as a fractional executive because the community is not exclusive. Everybody has their own thing, and we don’t have a sales team, and no one was responsible for bringing leads. And so that’s also why I joined TechCXO, because it’s a different kind of community where it’s really about choosing clients and helping each other grow in our own practice. But it’s been extremely rewarding, and we were able to connect with, you know, I know a lot of women have met. They started businesses together. They started podcasts together. So, it’s been very rewarding.

Todd Merrill:

Nice. Yeah, it seemed like a nice group of folks.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah, it is.

Todd Merrill:

So that was fun hearing from them. All right, one last question. So, crypto. So, I saw you wrote a little bit about crypto at some point, but you were in very early. So, what got you into cryptocurrencies, and what do you think is going on?

Virginie Glaenzer:

I think it was in 2016. I was interested in looking at other forms of leadership, distributed organization, So, DAOs. And I was actually interested in crypto not for the currency itself, but more from the value that it brings, the co-creation, the giving back the power to the people.

Todd Merrill:

Decentralized

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly, decentralized. Everybody thinks of crypto as currency, digital currency, or smart contract, or blockchain, but it really comes with a whole new set of values. I actually played a little bit with a token. I built my own token on Ethereum to raise funds. I did invest in crypto, Bitcoin, in 2016. I sold it in 2019, So, I didn’t make a lot of money at that time. And the reason why I sold it is because I thought it was just generating or requiring too much power.

Todd Merrill:

Oh, yeah. It’s a problem.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah

Todd Merrill:

Yeah, it’s definitely a problem.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah. So, the challenge, I think, with cryptocurrency is that it’s been eaten and taken over by large organizations. So, it lost a little bit, I think, the initial premises of reinventing almost like a new type of currencies and removing the middleman. There are tons of middlemen in the finance industry that we actually don’t need. And so I don’t know if that’s ever going to happen.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah. Yeah, it’s kind of weird. Bitcoin was supposed to be money, right? And then it was supposed to be just like this exchange between us, and it’s peer-to-peer. And then it kind of somehow turned into gold, and then it turned into tech stock. And nobody wanted to part with it because it’s so valuable. And now it’s a speculative, high-alpha asset. And it’s like, well, that didn’t work out the way we thought it was going to work out.

Virginie Glaenzer:

And there’s always different waves. So, maybe that’s the first wave, and there’s going to be a new wave…

Todd Merrill:

…sure

Virginie Glaenzer:

Where cryptocurrencies are really being used to empower individuals. So, small communities, they’re replacing or pushing away banks and various intermediaries that are just not creating any value, but just generating revenue through the interest. I know in Africa, there are a few different cities that are using cryptocurrencies as their local currency. But of course, government gets involved, and it threatens the establishment and the banks. So, it’s more challenging than we think.

Todd Merrill:

I’m looking at USDT, a stablecoin type of product. It’s kind of a cool solve for the money problem. In the US, we all have dollars, and dollars are fairly stable. There’s not going to be a huge shock. But compared to other parts of the world where you could just have these wild fluctuations in your bank account, what it can buy today, stable money supply is important for a lot of people other than the United States. So, I think it seems like Africa is a classic example. Your bank might not even be there next month. So, why would you put your money in a bank? They need something that’s stable to enable commerce, to be able to plan. So, I think that’s important. And then you mentioned smart contracts. I don’t understand why we don’t have …– well, maybe I do. But that’s such a great unlocked technology where we don’t have to trust each other. We can form a contract that’s enforceable digitally. And then transact in that way, like an option contract or like a bidding contract. It’s always the vices that lead the way, unfortunately. But maybe it’s like the regulatory climate in the United States. We’ve had such a hostile environment. But that’s something that was super-hot for a while that I think has cooled way down, and that deserves another look.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yeah

Todd Merrill:

It’s fun bringing it up with smart people.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Sure

Todd Merrill:

I don’t know what your thoughts are. Or if we’re about to see a renaissance and all that or just throw all your money in Bitcoin and wait. It’s a funny thing.

Virginie Glaenzer:

If you can look at crypto from an investment standpoint or from an exchange standpoint. And I was very disappointed that, from an exchange standpoint, I couldn’t actually use crypto to buy or to exchange. And it’s been really … I think the usage has been really focused on making money. But that’s, you know, the capitalism system that we’re in is so deep that it’s just hard to go to the post-capitalism society where there could be bothering and collective empowerment. That’s really what I’m curious to see how in two or three generations from now, what kind of society are we going to have? Because we know that capitalism has created this absurd, unbalanced wealth from a handful of businesses and families, with the rest. And I think that’s what a lot of the young generation, young people, don’t accept. And they’re trying to find how to I build a life by being sustainable using some of the benefits of being part of the whole, but still separate, so I don’t play in that game that I don’t fully agree with.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah. Well, like our parents. I was having this discussion with my college-age son and what gold is maintained, the same buying, you know, like an ounce of gold will buy a man’s set of fine clothing in Roman times and now and anywhere in between. There are things like that. So, I told him to go talk to my parents, and I said, “Hey, how many weeks of your average pay did it take you to save up for a car that they paid cash for? Like three. Or how long did it take you to save for a house? And it was like, you know, we both worked for two years and just bought a cash house. Like that’s unfathomable today, where the average kid coming out of college, it would take you three years to save if you could save all of it to start to afford a cheap car. Not even a nice car, right? It’s like so out of whack. Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know what the answer is. But I have hope for this.

Virginie Glaenzer:

But you see, here’s the trick. It’s like, yes, we can buy so much more stuff and that I think created the illusion of wealth. But really, what was the cost of that wealth? It’s destroying the planet. When you look at fast fashion, yes, you can buy your T-shirt for five bucks, but look at the beaches. So, I think that is tarnishing the entire experience of acquiring wealth. And then wealth used to be, I think we got caught up in wealth as in abundance of material stuff, when really the real wealth is time. That’s all we’ve got, and that’s really limited.

Todd Merrill:

Quality time, right?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Quality time.

Todd Merrill:

Being able to spend quality time on the things you really enjoy.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly. And choosing. Yeah, choosing what we want to do. When I woke up in the morning, what do I want to do? And I think a lot of us haven’t really had that luxury of asking those questions because we thought that the game of life was you go to college. You get married. You buy a dog. You get a house. You have children and you retire and you start checking all those boxes. And then at some point, you’re like, well, those boxes don’t fulfill me. So, I think that’s what the next generation is very aware of, is that fulfillment doesn’t come from an abundance of stuff. And actually, I’ve been on the road of minimalism, like owning less and less stuff, like three pairs of shoes, two dresses. This is the dress that I’ve been wearing the entire summer.

Todd Merrill:

Oh, wow!

Virginie Glaenzer:

So, why not?

Todd Merrill:

Okay

Virginie Glaenzer:

And it’s very relaxing not to actually ask yourself the question about, okay, how do I dress myself today?

Todd Merrill:

Neat. Well, Virginia, it’s been great having you here in the SkyLounge. It’s always fun to knock great topics around with really smart people. I know you’re a world traveler, and you get out there in the world and make things happen. Do you have any great travel stories that you’d like to share with us?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Well, talking about capitalism, actually, I was on my way to India with one of my daughters, the only time that I went to India to an Ayurveda retreat to learn the benefit of the plants. And we missed our connecting flight and we had to stop in Dubai. And we stayed one night and one day. And I discovered Dubai, which is a beautiful city. People are extremely nice. But oh, my God, what type of city is based on shopping? That’s all there is, shopping. I was so shocked. And despite the fact that people are extremely nice, I’ve heard from other people that, as a woman, it’s a great place to have a business. And very safe. But all I’ve seen were malls and malls. And I don’t think I could have lived in such a city if there was nothing else to do but go shopping. Since I shop as little as I can. And I had a great time in Dubai with my daughter. We visited, and it’s a beautiful, very interesting city. But, again, based on shopping.

Todd Merrill:

So, you’re glad you went?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Yes

Todd Merrill:

And you’re glad you left?

Virginie Glaenzer:

Exactly

Todd Merrill:

It may not be on the list for next year, it sounds like.

Virginie Glaenzer:

For sure.

Todd Merrill:

Okay. Well, fun. Well, Virginia, it’s been great having you. How can people follow up with you on the internet after this if they want to get in touch with you about some of this stuff?

Virginie Glaenzer:

I’m a pretty open book on LinkedIn, usually. I used to be on Twitter; I still am, but I don’t engage a lot. But LinkedIn is an easy way to connect with me and TechCXO on the website. Thank you so much, Todd, for having me. That was really a lovely conversation.

Todd Merrill:

Yeah. Thank you, Virginia. Bye for now.

Virginie Glaenzer:

Thank you. Bye.